“No One Hates Veterans More Than Other Vets:” Debunking The Vance/Walz Military Service Meme

Many years ago, a longtime friend of mine published an article about veterans suicide in the Havok Journal in which she opined, “The only people who understand veterans are other veterans. And they all hate each other.” 

She’s right.

In recent days I’ve seen several other veterans echo that same sentiment, with observations like “no one hates veterans more than other veterans.” The truth of that statement was once again demonstrated as I observed the discourse surrounding a meme contrasting the military service of J.D. Vance and Tim Walz through the lens of their relative military achievements. The meme is below. To sum up, it is neither accurate nor useful. It is highly biased and most likely highly inaccurate. It’s pretty stupid, actually. And it has caused a great deal of consternation in and out of the Veteran Community, among people who really should know better. And it has shown how much hatred and contempt some veterans have for each other.

The following is based on my 27+ years as an officer in the Army, but is limited by my small amount of knowledge of the service of the two individuals in question. Therefore, some of my analysis may be wrong, and if so I’ll update this piece accordingly.

This is not a political post, it is a factual analysis that I’m putting up because many people have asked me about it recently. The bottom line is this: the meme is dumb. It is biased. It is inaccurate. It serves no useful purpose. And everyone, especially veterans, should stop sharing it.

To begin with, these two individuals are, like me, US military veterans. But they were in different branches and different components, and held different ranks. The guy on the left was an active duty Marine, the guy on the right was a Army National Guard soldier.

Most of the medals and ribbons on the right are specific to a service (Army, Navy, Marines, etc.) or a component (Active Duty, National Guard, Reserves). While they are not mutually exclusive to each other, it’s rare for them to cross streams. For example, an Army Achievement Medal is usually for… you guessed it, people in the Army. It’s possible, but not usual, for service members in other branches to receive one but it is not common. I would not expect an enlisted Marine like the guy on the left to have many (any?) Army medals. It’s the same thing with the guy on the right: we shouldn’t expect him to have Marine or Navy decorations. It is simply not a like-to-like comparison. Some of the other listings are equally silly. For example, if you’re not an Army NCO, you’re probably never getting an Army NCO professional development ribbon. I was in the Army 27 years and never got one of those, because I was never an Army NCO. Neither was J.D. Vance. And if you were never in the Marines or the Navy, like Tim Walz and, well, me, you’re probably not getting any Marine Corps or Navy medals.

Additionally, many of the things listed on the right are routine recognitions that are handed out simply for being there. This includes the National Defense Service Medal and the Army Service Ribbon. I’m not disparaging those awards; I have them too. I’m just stating a fact. I also don’t think this is an accurate accounting of the sum of the awards and recognitions the two men received. The guy on the left should also have received the NDSM… because at that time, regardless of branch of service, we all did. And he should also have received either the GWOT-S or GWOT-E medal, or both, and probably an Iraq Campaign Medal for his service there. For that matter, for the guy on the left there also does not appear to be any recognition of any awards or decorations that we might reasonably expect one to accrue during on-the-ground service in a combat zone.

Furthermore, while awards are harder to come by in the Guard than the active duty Army, it’s also strange to me that a senior NCO with something like 24 years of service would only have one ARCOM (a low level award). I suspect he has more awards, maybe more ARCOMs or higher level awards like MSMs that simply aren’t listed. I think the guy on the right is being short changed. There is also a 20-year service difference between the two, so we would expect the guy on the right to have far more awards, certificates, and decorations than the guy on the left.

And speaking of “hard to come by,” the Marine Corps is notoriously stingy about handing out medals and ribbons. That was really brought home to me on my last tour with the Task Force in Afghanistan, when I wrote up my deputy, a Marine major, for the award I thought he deserved. He insisted that I put him in for an award that was far less prestigious, with words to the effect that “the Marine Corps will never approve that award, and if you submit it I might end up with nothing.” So even if a one-tour enlisted Marine ended up with only two medals/ribbons, which I simply don’t believe is the case here, it wouldn’t really raise eyebrows for me.

The meme also claims that E9 is the “highest rank available in the US Army.” It’s not. It’s the highest *enlisted* rank. the highest rank in the Army is O10 (4-star general).

This meme almost seems like a troll post to me. In fact, if someone told me that a group of fellow vets got together and cracked a bottle of whiskey while they put the most trolling-est post they possibly could, I’d believe it. And I don’t think they could have come up with better. I’m imagining something like this:

Vet 1: “OK. First start by listing all of the things that the one guy has, that the other guy couldn’t possibly have. And then just show the things that are total gimmees from both services.

Vet 2: *snicker* I can’t WAIT to see the comments section. Now put command sergeant major down as a rank instead of a duty description. And imply that one guy is better than the other simply because he was in longer.

Vet 3:OMG! People will LOSE THEIR MINDS over that! Ok, ok, I’ve got it, say that E9 is the highest rank available in the Army!

<drunken hilarity ensues>

To sum up, this meme is highly inaccurate and highly biased, it’s basically “OMG.., the guy on the left never got all of these things he was never eligible for in the first place!!” which is just stupid. It also short changes the service of the guy on the right by highlighting ridiculous things like the Army Service Ribbon, which literally everyone Soldier receives, instead of his other accomplishments. I’m certain he achieved far more over the course of his career than simply completing his initial entry training.

I’ve been saddened to see veterans viciously attacking each other over this meme, supporting one candidate or the other. That is not necessary, nor is it useful. Using an incomplete and inaccurate meme to assess the service of two military veterans is… well, it’s dumb. Vets, in particular, should know better. This is a distraction from things that really matter.

I think a far better level of analysis is to compare policies instead of saying “this guy is better because his ribbon rack shows X.” So please feel free to have that discussion somewhere that isn’t the discussion comments of this article. But if you do so, please do it with something other than knee-jerk confirmation bias, and without the vitriol we’ve seen so far. After all, we don’t–or at least we shouldn’t–all hate each other. Especially over something like this.

And please also stop sharing this stupid and inaccurate meme, especially if you’re also a veteran.

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Charles Faint is a retired US Army officer. This article represents his personal observations and does not reflect a personal political view, an official position of the US government, or the views/positions of any other person or organization.

This article began as a Facebook post, and the author wishes to acknowledge and thank commenters who helped shape the final product. These include Chris Otero, Carl Wells, and Michael Ruttledge.

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